Politics around the world

[CTG]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jobbik a nationalist party that wants to create separate rights for people based on ethnicity?

Sorry, you're wrong. Jobbik is a nationalist party, but they never wanted to create different rights based on ethnicity. They tend to see Gypsies and Jewish as reasons of problems in Hungary, however the solutions they offer are different than you think. What do their "anti-gypsy" plans mean? More policemen in rural areas, stricter penalties for minor crimes, benefits for non-working people in kind (instead of giving money which they often spend on alcohol, etc.), forcing parents to send kids to school, forcing people to keep their environment tidy, etc. These rules would apply to everybody, not regarding ethnicity! The Western media likes to exaggerate the "nazi danger" in Hungary... That's mainly because our politicians' habit of telling lies about their opponents to foreign journalists, not caring if they destroy the reputation of the whole country. (Fidesz in opposition did the same with the left-wing.)

I've quite strong left-wing (socialist, not liberal) political views, so I would never vote for Jobbik. But I can understand people who do. Currently Jobbik is the only party who stand for any kind of ideas, and have plans about how to govern the country. Fidesz and the left-wing politicians are not more than the spokesmen of oligarch groups. Believe it or not, the two major parties had no published political programs before the elections... They want to rule simply because they want to give all business opportunities and all possible money to their wealthy friends in the background. I think that's the moral crisis what CTG talks about.

I've already written about the "Gypsy problem" in this forum. That's an existing problem in Hungary, and Jobbik is the only party not denying it. Maybe Zak feels safe in the "bad" districts and villages as a traveler, but it is very-very different for people living there. They can be attacked anytime (even in their homes), they cannot grow anything in their gardens (because Gypsy gangs pick everything), their children are terrorised in school, etc. And yes, their are specific types of crime which are related to Gypsies due to their very different cultural traditions. They were nomad people: in their world there was no private property, they took whatever they needed, and they reacted to any offence with calling the family members for a massive attack. In Europe, in the 21th century this is called crime, and cannot be tolerated.

There's nothing more to add about political situation, I agree with every words.

However, I thought on "moral crisis" from a different aspect, also described by Usrin in the past: the moral of Hungarian citizens (summary: we are our own enemies).

One more thing: people are strongly manipulated by the media. Not with direct Fidesz propaganda (it is also strong, but only the most stupid ones believe it), but with a lot of artificially created breaks in the society. Workers hate students, city dwellers hate villagers, motorists hate cyclists, etc., believing that their problems are caused by the other group. While people care about such stupid things instead of politics, Fidesz leaders happily destroy their rights and steals their future wealth.

[BonzaiJoe]

Thanks for elaborating on these issues.

I'm thinking about another artificial division: east/west. Are we really still east and west 24 years after the fall of the Soviet Union? And do we want to be?

[BonzaiJoe]

By the way it's a typical thing in history that radical movements with very clean-cut and simple sounding ideas gain momentum because of weak or incompetent centrist politicians that have grown too accustomed to power. It's worth remembering that the failure of one does not make the other better.

[CTG]

I'm thinking about another artificial division: east/west. Are we really still east and west 24 years after the fall of the Soviet Union? And do we want to be?

You've already seen the Eastern block: the difference is too huge to forget about divisions.

[CTG]

Btw I think the most significant cause of our moral crisis is the basic mentality of Hungarian people. I could tell you dozens of "typical Hungarian" bullshit - I won't, it would be a cheap cliche. Only a little sad fact: considering the incredible popularity and "aping"  of reality shows / brainless soap operas, Hungary is the most infected (brainwashed) country on Earth by celebrity "cult" and by the resulting deviant behaviour. You can't see real characters in Hungarian reality shows: just some "analphabetic" muscle guys and sluts with fake boobs (porn experience is almost obligatory!). Yeah, it must be a global process, but once I checked some other country's Big Brother cast - it was fuckin' different (sometimes even "normal" participants appeared).

Some of the signs, how deep the swamp is:
- An average (less educated) young man: eats steroids to look like "Big Brother Joe" or "Való Világ Jack" (with only a minimal workout), owns (or wants to own) a tuned BMW with UV lights, rear wing and enormous loudspeakers/subwoofer (because it's "so coooooooool" to listen hardstyle techno at 150 dB while playing "Fast & Furious" on the street, disturbing the half district with it), owns an iPhone (or at least a noname phone with fake iPhone backcover), sucks up tons of cheap energy drink, has at least 3 tattoos (mainly violent content or Chinese letters, although they don't know what does the latter one mean - I hope the tattoo makers trolled them with ugly Chinese words ), chain smoker from the age of 12-14...
- An average (less educated) young woman: acts/dresses/behaves like a prostitute (Hungary is first in the number of porn actresses per capita!), wants to have (or already has) fake boobs, she's keen on typical average young man described above, sucks up tons of cheap energy drink, has at least 3 non-figurative tattoos, chain smoker from the age of 12-14...
- Both of them watch all the reality shows and 10 min/episode soap operas ("Barátok közt").
- Reading habits: only low-class tabloids, celebrity magazines (not even a sports newspaper!)
- Zero sense to politics (the majority can't name the ministers or even the MPs of their own district)
etc. (I could continue for hours, but it's better not to)

Meanwhile - thanks to the last few governments - our education system is in ruins. 15-20 years ago, Hungary had a pretty strong education system with respectable results in international tests (not the close elite level, but still a decent one). Nowadays, the performance of Hungarian students sinked to the level of third-world countries. No surprise, being a teacher is not a value anymore (low salary, humiliation in their everyday work) - most of the teacher candidates were simply too stupid to enter better universities. For example, one of my former schoolmates from primary school is now a teacher in secondary school - although he was always close to get failed at the end of the years, but he could enter the weakest teacher training college with a minimal score (and survived it somehow)... No problem: the most important thing is that your child can learn the Fidesz-censored history and ethics (based on populist right-wing "values"), they must participate 5 PE lessons per week (most of the schools simply don't have the equipment and sports grounds for that), while the number of science lessons is decreasing. Experts say Hungary will become the land of functional analphabets...
Still education: in Hungary, young people think that BSc/MSc degree is granted for everyone on general eligibility. It's no matter how valueless it is, they want to own it without efforts - and the system helps a lot by providing endless number of places at useless faculties (even the most untalented little rats [sorry] can find a place to spend 5-10 lazy years somewhere, spendig the money of the parents, without the need of working). Where does it lead? Hungarian degrees will absolutely lose their value.

Just like my eternal favorite chat partner (Szilvi) said: "most of the Hungarian people need a degree only to get a job where they can play Solitaire in an air-conditioned office for 200000 HUF/month...".

Sorry, it wasn't a well-organized opinion (I'm tired), just a few random chapters from the sick and annoying reality of our country.

[CTG]

Reminder for myself: I should write about our "great nationalism" (tomorrow?). It's worth to compare with other countries.

[CTG]

See what happens when people take politics too seriously...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2edtLzQeMMY

[CTG]

Results of EP elections in Hungary:

Participation rate: 28.9%, which meant good only for Fidesz (I also missed it, busy Sunday)

Distribution of the votes and mandates:
51.49% - Fidesz (12 mandates)
14.68% - Jobbik (3 mandates), no, they are not weaker than in April, but since a typical Jobbik voter is against EU membership, they are not that interested in this election
10.92% - MSZP (2 mandates), swan song of the old socialist party, they will disappear soon
9.76% - Demokratikus Koalíció (Gyurcsány's "left-wing" party, 2 mandates)
7.22% - Együtt-PM (Bajnai's "left-wing" party, 1 mandate)
5.01% - LMP (1 mandate), the usual "lucky" result by the neo-SZDSZ...

Btw I'm quite surprised to see the results of some Western European countries (France, Great Britain).

[BonzaiJoe]

Scary to see the right-wing nationalists win such big victories in Denmark, Britain, France and Austria. Apart from that, results were not too bad. It's really hard to say who yet who will be the new chairman of the commission. I hope it won't be Mr. Juncker 

The Hungarian results are crazy. 28,9% participation rate is tragic. How does it compare to your national election, and what do you think the 71,1% non-voters were thinking on Sunday? They all still count in the parliamentary representation. So they are now almost all represented by Fidesz and Jobbik. I hope they like that fact.

My party, Det Radikale Venstre (Danish Social-liberalist Party) is back in the parliament (ALDE) with one mandate, which is great.

[CTG]

I hope it won't be Mr. Juncker 

Funny, but even if Fidesz is the member of EPP, Orbán doesn't support Juncker.

The Hungarian results are crazy. 28,9% participation rate is tragic. How does it compare to your national election, and what do you think the 71,1% non-voters were thinking on Sunday? They all still count in the parliamentary representation. So they are now almost all represented by Fidesz and Jobbik. I hope they like that fact.

Participation rate of the national elections: 61.2% (decreasing). However, people weren't really interested in the last two EP elections either: 38.5% in 2004 (right after we joined EU), 36.3% in 2009.

Low participation rate was quite predictable, because:

- people are getting more and more disappointed in the well-known political forces
- our EP representation was rather a well-paid holiday for 21 "politicians"
- right wing voters are (partly) against EU membership

However, Slovakia showed up even worse participation rate: 13%!

[Usrin]

7.22% - Együtt-PM (Bajnai's "left-wing" party, 1 mandate)
5.01% - LMP (1 mandate), the usual "lucky" result by the neo-SZDSZ...

Since PM separated from LMP (1-2 years ago) and started to strengthen connections with "left-wing" parties (heavily fighting for postions despite low popular support), it is clear that they are the neo-SZDSZ. Whereas the remaining LMP became Fidesz puppets. They are trying to balance between right- and left-wings, and the green dreams (saving the whales, shutting down the nuclear power plants) are more important for them than real political questions. But they can steal some opposition votes, strengthening the position of Fidesz... That's why they are always helped to reach 5%.

Of course I didn't vote as it was possible only in Oslo. Otherwise I would have probably voted for DK.

[CTG]

7.22% - Együtt-PM (Bajnai's "left-wing" party, 1 mandate)
5.01% - LMP (1 mandate), the usual "lucky" result by the neo-SZDSZ...

Since PM separated from LMP (1-2 years ago) and started to strengthen connections with "left-wing" parties (heavily fighting for postions despite low popular support), it is clear that they are the neo-SZDSZ. Whereas the remaining LMP became Fidesz puppets. They are trying to balance between right- and left-wings, and the green dreams (saving the whales, shutting down the nuclear power plants) are more important for them than real political questions. But they can steal some opposition votes, strengthening the position of Fidesz... That's why they are always helped to reach 5%.

Of course I didn't vote as it was possible only in Oslo. Otherwise I would have probably voted for DK.

nothing about slovakia?

[alanrotoi]

What do you think about European monarchies?

[CTG]

What do you think about European monarchies?

Do you mean monarchies as countries "governed" by kings? I think it's just a meaningless title in this democratic (?) world, without real power. All the decisions are born in the parliaments.

[alanrotoi]

I mean the high economic costs they have for the people, for example in Netherlands or Spain.
BTW if you think they have no political power you are wrong. They can't change the constitution of a country of course but they have high influences where the power is.